In most denominations today it is taught that sin will break our fellowship with God. I questioned that teaching and now believe it is unbiblical. This teaching tends to devalue the true definition of sin and devalue the crucifixion of Jesus Christ for sin. It, also, devalues the necessity of being born again. It tells us that in order to be a Christian, or live as a Christian, all one has to do is ask for forgiveness.
Never in the Bible does it state the wages of sin is being out of fellowship with God. The wages of sin is death. It always has been and always will be. NEVER in the Bible does it say sin changed from death to being out of fellowship.
Never in the Bible does it say we can be forgiven of sin by simply asking God to forgive us. This attitude bypasses the truth that sin equals death and replaces the truth with sin now being out of fellowship. Our problem is not that we have sinned in actions but that we are dead in sin. Our death in sin did not happen because we personally sinned. It happened because Adam sinned and died spiritually and all who are born after Adam are born spiritually dead, out of fellowship with God.
In Genesis 1:27 it states Adam was created after the image of God. In Genesis 5:3 it states Adam became a father of a son after his own likeness in his (Adams) own image. Something happened between these two passages. Adam sinned and died spiritually to fellowship with God. Adam, alone, was created after the image of God but that image was destroyed by sin (wages of sin is death) and all after Adam are born in that fallen image of Adam.
This is the reason Jesus Christ had to be born of a virgin by the power of the Holy Spirit. Adam, being dead in sin could not pass spiritual life to his descendants. The same way we cannot pass on to our children what we do not have, either genetically nor physically. If Jesus were to be born of a human father He would have been born spiritually dead, just like the rest of us, and would never have qualified to be the Lamb of God who takes away sin. (Rom 5:12 KJV) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
We are born so dead in sin that God tells us in Romans(Rom 3:10,11) As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
It is not that sin takes us out of fellowship with God. Sin killed us to the extent that we are born dead in sin. When Adam sinned it broke fellowship with God for everyone born after him. It is not 'our' sins that break fellowship. To believe that all we have to do to restore fellowship with God is to ask Him to forgive us means that we do not understand the devastating consequences of sin and devalues the true definition of the wages of sin being death. The core of this erroneous teaching on fellowship with God is what creates shallow Christianity by making one believe fellowship with God is based upon their asking for forgiveness rather than the need to be born again.
The other side of the coin is that this teaching devalues the crucifixion of Christ for sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. But this teaching tells us we can be forgiven by simply asking God to forgive us rather than forgiveness coming through the shedding of Christ's blood on the cross. Forgiveness and fellowship with God is not based upon us asking, it is based upon the crucifixion of Christ.
When Adam sinned it brought death and severed his fellowship with God. Christ came as the perfect sacrifice and dealt with sin on the cross but He didn't stay on the cross. He was also resurrected to new life. He died for sin and is in continual fellowship with God in His resurrected life. When one is born again he is taken out of Adam (death in Adam equals loss of fellowship with God) and placed in Christ and given the eternal spiritual life of Christ (life in Christ equals fellowship with God). This life is eternal and not dependent upon our works or anything we do, it is dependent upon Christ and Christ alone. The same way our death from sin was not a result of our sin but the sin of Adam.
In Adam we are dead in sin. In Christ through being born again we are given His life of eternal fellowship with God. Nothing can break that fellowship because we are "in" Christ and Christ is in perfect fellowship with God. Scripture even states that the born again one is hidden in Christ who is sitting at the right hand of God. (Col 3:3 KJV) For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
(Rom 8:32 KJV) He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Does the sin of a believer break fellowship with God? Not according to scripture because Christ already shed His blood and died for those sins and He is our High Priest who intercedes for us by His very presence of sitting at the right hand of God. When a believer sins Christ is there proving He died for those sins and has given them resurrection life which is eternal. Eternal means eternal!
This whole teaching of sin breaking fellowship with God is based upon ONE verse in scripture - 1 John 1:9. This teaching is relatively a new teaching. The early church did not teach this. The reason this has become a major teaching is that they do not take into consideration the original congregation to whom this was written and assume it was written to believers. Hebrews and 1 John are the only epistles written without a salutation stating it was to believers.
Gnosticism was prevalent in the early church as it is today and this was written to a congregation filled with the belief of Gnosticism. The whole first chapter is a defense of the truth of Jesus Christ. Gnostics believed Jesus did not come in the flesh and sin was an illusion. They did not believe they were dead in sin and instead believed they had no sin and did not sin. They believed it was special knowledge (gnosis) which saved them and not the death of God in the flesh, Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:9 is a salvation passage and not a passage to those who already are born again. It was a passage that directly contradicted the Gnostic belief. Paul and John both battled Gnosticism in their writings.
The only thing that keeps us out of fellowship with God is unbelief. The only sin we can commit today which is against God is unbelief. If we believe in the final, complete, sacrifice for sin done by Jesus Christ on the cross and have received His resurrection life which is eternal we HAVE fellowship with Him.
The sin of the world is unbelief.
(John 16:7 KJV) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.
(John 8:36 KJV) If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
There may be times we feel we are out of fellowship with God but those are only feeling, emotions, which often lie to us. Our faith is not in what is seen or felt but in Jesus Christ and His Word. If you are born again by the resurrected life of Christ you will never be out of fellowship with God, ever again, for there is NO condemnation for those in Christ (Rom. 8:1) Believe this and be free for the truth will set you free.
Thank you for your reply.
ReplyDeleteI once new a man who had become a believer and changed his whole life around once he had believed on the Lord. After a few years he slowly slipped back into his old style of life, drugs and alcohol which then broke up his marriage. Would you say this man was still in fellowship with the Lord? What do you think happens in this sort of situation?
It is hard to say for sure. I would have to talk to him to determine 'what' he believed. I think there are many people who make a decision to believe in their minds but it is not mixed with faith. ( KJV) For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
ReplyDeleteIf this is so then he may have had changed his behavior rather than had a new life change. Did 'he' changed his life or did the Lord? Even as an unbeliever I could change things in my life such as getting rid of bad habits, etc. especially when I believed that in order to get in good with God I had to clean up my act. But after a while that got tiring and my effort began to fade. Kind of like in where it says the sow returned to the mud.
If this is the case, he was never in fellowship with God because he was attempting to come to God on his own terms of self-effort and self-sacrifice rather than on the basis of the cross of Christ.
On the other hand, if he is a true believer then, yes, he is still in fellowship with God because he is in Christ and Christ is in fellowship with God. However, being in fellowship doesn't mean God does not discipline us when we get caught up in sin. If we are His child then we are disciplined as a child, but we are not cast out of the family.
God sometimes has to bring us to the depths of despair in order to rid us of ourselves. Sometimes He has to rip everything from us that we trusted in so we have no other alternative but to trust Him. He has to get US out of the way in order for Christ to be everything. This is a working out of "Not I, but Christ".
Christ said His sheep hear His voice and will follow Him, but that doesn't mean His sheep do not get on detours once in awhile. If that happens then Jesus will go get them.
The shepherds often have wayward sheep and have to go get them. Sometimes the stubborn ones (aren't we all at one time or another) don't want to come back with him, so he breaks their legs and carries them.
In a situation like this, only God knows whether he is one of His sheep and only time will tell.
I would suspect, however, that he was never a sheep in the first place.
Hope this helps,
God bless,
Thank you. I had often wondered about his salvation, but it is difficult to tell as I have known many people who call themselves believers but their actions show otherwise.
ReplyDeleteDo you believe we should confess our sins in prayer as is written in the Lord's prayer, 'forgive us our sins, for we also forgive everyone who sins against us' NIV Luke 11:4.
Sometimes it is hard to tell even when their actions are good. The Pharisees of Jesus day were the religious leaders and did everything by the book but yet Jesus said they were of their father the devil. You can't always tell by someones actions.
ReplyDeleteThe Lord's prayer was a prayer given to the disciples under the Old Covenant of the Law. When the Lord's prayer is said in churches they stop with the Amen at the end of verse 13 and neglect to continue through the 15th verse.
There are two covenants, the covenant of Law and the covenant of Grace. Jesus lived and taught under the covenant of Law. Law says as in Mt. 6:14, IF you forgive, God will forgive you. Vs 15, IF you don't forgive, God will not forgive you. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all took place under the Old Covenant. The new covenant of Grace did not come in until Christ's death on the cross.
In Mt. 6, it states, if we forgive, God will forgive, if we don't, He won't. But in Ephesians 4:32 it says, "And be kind to one another, tender-hearted, forgiving each other, just as God in Christ also HAS (Past tense) forgiven you."
The order between these two verses are reversed. One says we will only be forgiven if we forgive, the other says we are to forgive as we HAVE been forgiven.
Something happened between these verses in time. Christ was crucified and brought in the covenant of Grace. In Colossians it states:
Col. 2:9f When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us ALL our sins, 14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
The written code (the Law given to the nation of Israel of the 10 commandment and the 603 other commandments) was against us because we could not keep them, but Christ took that out of the way by nailing it to His cross.
Forgiveness now comes through Christ's obedience to God of offering Himself as the sacrifice for sins rather than by forgiving or not forgiving as in Mt. 6:14,15.
The easy way for me to understand what Grace means is
God's
Riches
At
Christs
Expense
God gives us the free gift of salvation because Christ died on the cross for all of our sins.
ALL of our sins, past, present, and future. Hebrews 10:12-18
Now we are to forgive as we have already been forgiven by God. In other words, our forgiveness from God has already been accomplished in Christ. Now we are to concentrate on on offering others the same free grace of forgiveness God has already given us.
If we sin God now wishes us to go to the one we have sinned against and ask forgivness from them. He has already forgiven us but our sins break the relationship between us and the ones we sin against. We are already reconciled to Him, He want us to reconcile with those of whom our relationship has been broken.
I pray this helps.
Leanna
Thank you.
ReplyDeleteSo what do you do if you sin, but not against any certain person, e.g. greed, selfishness, unkind thoughts. If we are not meant to ask for forgiveness, because we are already forgiven then what do you do? How do you stop feeling guilty, I know we are not meant to, but nevertheless the feeling is still there. Do we just feel bad and leave it at that and never do it again? Also, when before the communion we are told to 'examine' ourselves, does this just mean to judge ourselves?
I am sorry to be such a bother but it is very hard to accept a different teaching from one that you have been brought up to believe. I am just trying to find the truth.
Please do not feel you are a bother. I will do whatever I can to help you come to a better understanding of His amazing Grace. For some reason, God set me apart to do this. It is my life to further explain scripture so that those who are searching for the truth may become better established in faith.
ReplyDeleteWhen I was 35 God created a burning desire in my heart to learn what the scripture says. I was a terrible student in school and I hated to read. God changed all that and for the next 6 years I spent 6 to 8 hours a day, every day, in studying the Bible.
When this first happened, I read through the Bible and I was furious! I felt I had been lied to all my life by pastors and teachers. Not intentionally, but lied to none-the-less. I discovered that the wise men were not at the birth of Christ and didn't come until He was in Nazareth at about 2 years old. I know this sounds insignificant, but for me it was fuel for the fire in my heart to discover how many other times I was lied to. And I found a bunch!
My quest now is to attempt to bring the truth to light that those who are struggling may find their freedom in Christ who is the way, the truth, and the life. I am at your service as long as you wish.
I think it would be better if we communicated via email rather than through this blog. If you feel you would like to do that please email me at
leanna.steward@yahoo.com
If you prefer not to email just post again on the blog and I will respond with what I believe the answers to your questions are.
Leanna